The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
Ok. In what way then do you refuse to "treat them as a woman"? I appreciate that for a trans woman in your life you would call them by her preferred name and use her preferred pronouns. Let's set aside for the moment some of the hot button topics form this thread (sports, healthcare, etc). In this dinner conversation, is there some way you intend to NOT treat them as a woman like any other woman at the table who you might not be sexually at
Can't really set those aside because that's where the issues start. If it's just a question of language and being kind then sure, I wouldn't go out of my way to misgender someone and if Jim is now Jane I will call Jim Jane. Jane should however use the mens bathroom.
I do want to add. I will never refer to anyone as any other pronoun but the his and hers. No xe, xer them they and what ever other nonsense people can think of.
Personally I don't mind debating these issues myself, but we just have to be aware that no trans person would ever touch this thread with a ten foot pole due to the rampant amount of anti-trans rhetoric in this thread. They might participate in a thread that was just about the specific issues that are controversial, like bathroom laws, sports, minor trans healthcare, etc.
Don't think it's anywhere near this bad.
It's the classic trans activists being unable to define a woman and then also claim they are one and we should treat them as one.
They're not going to come into a thread where people are like "YNBAW" every other post.
Presuming you both mean "You Will Never Be A Woman", uh, ya, that seems like a very fair characterization of some poster ITT.
There is some history here you may or may not be aware of. Through many moderation eras, there has been some iteration of a "trans thread" to discuss various issues related to trans people, just as there is a big catch all thread on all kinds of other things on the forum. I agree with you this shouldn't just be some free for all to **** on trans people. However, in specifically the browser era there was - as now - a pretty bad sequence of a
I am allowing the thread to stay open as a catch-all thread for posting about actual issues or current events that relate to the transgender community.
This will no longer be a refuge thread for debating what is and isn’t anti-trans bigotry or the qualifying and disqualifying of the transgender identity. The direction the thread has taken recently is not sustainable and frankly intolerable to moderate.
If everyone wants to post about topics, go ahead, but random personal musings are no longer welcome.
I am allowing the thread to stay open as a catch-all thread for posting about actual issues or current events that relate to the transgender community.
This will no longer be a refuge thread for debating what is and isn’t anti-trans bigotry or the qualifying and disqualifying of the transgender identity. The direction the thread has taken recently is not sustainable and frankly intolerable to moderate.
If everyone wants to post about
Works for me😀
I think basically every moderator of this forum has expressed some level of frustration at precisely this challenge when it comes to trans issues.
Why don't people start a thread in science, math, and philosophy?
The philosophy and science behind transism is distinctly not political
there are some generic threads like that in other sections of the forum.
the trans thread is here because of the political repercussions of trans issues, their roles in political platforms, laws written about them and so on.
I agree with crossnerd this shouldn't be about whether we personally "like" or not being around trans people and everything else related to subjective ideas about trans people unless they have political (Ie legal, enforceable with state power) effects
So basically this thread will become a circle jerk where Uke and Coordi agree with each other on everything-trans?
Sounds boring.
You can still talk about sports issues, prisons, bathrooms, trans medicine whether state should pay for it, underage transition as it relates to informed consent, disclosure of trans identity as it relates to the law, implications of trans issues on politics, etc.
You just have to stop with the discussion of trans identity. That’s it.
So basically this thread will become a circle jerk where Uke and Coordi agree with each other on everything-trans?
Sounds boring.
No they let us disagree with most points of law regarding trans issues.
I repeatedly wrote I don't think public healthcare systems should pay anything for transition and I was never reprimanded about that from a forum rules point of view
Not in my opinion, *IN THEIR OPINION*.
They shout as much as they can it isn't medical. They claim considering trans ness a mental illness is obscene and the same thing that happened to homosexuality for a long time to discriminate against homosexuals and mistreat them.
They convinced me, which is why I am puzzled every time trans issues are discussed as being medical issues, which they clearly aren't at all.
When people clamor (reasonably) against the claim that trans ness is a mental health issue, well then sorry but not sorry you aren't going to freeroll any "treatment" as there isn't nothing to treat to begin with.
You are splendidly healthy as trans as everyone else is, and if you are in the subset of trans people who feel better modifying their bodies, feel free to do so when adult out of pocket and I won't ever block you from being able to modify your body as much as you want when adult (nor I will ban other people from modifying your body with your consent of course).
Not in my opinion, *IN THEIR OPINION*.
They shout as much as they can it isn't medical. They claim considering trans ness a mental illness is obscene and the same thing that happened to homosexuality for a long time to discriminate against homosexuals and mistreat them.
They convinced me, which is why I am puzzled every time trans issues are discussed as being medical issues, which they clearly aren't at all
If you don't think it's a medical issue then you're denying trans identity. Ban.
Opposite.
Trans identity exists and it's not medical, claiming it's always medical is what gets you a ban.
Current claim by some people is "sometimes it's medical" because being trans when strongly disliking your body becomes medical. I disagree. People can strongly dislike their own body in their current forms for many reasons.
We don't pay for depilation of women who feel completely out of touch with society if their have hairy legs. We don't pay for hair transplants of bald men who feel terrible after their lost their hairs.
We shouldn't pay for a trans man mastectomy because that individual doesn't like having woman-like breasts.
Opposite.
Trans identity exists and it's not medical, claiming it's always medical is what gets you a ban.
Current claim by some people is "sometimes it's medical" because being trans when strongly disliking your body becomes medical. I disagree. People can strongly dislike their own body in their current forms for many reasons.
We don't pay for depilation of women who feel completely out of touch with society if their have hairy legs. We don'
No no no.
There is nothing wrong with their minds
It's their bodies. They're completely wrong with the wrong genitalia.
No no no.
There is nothing wrong with their minds
It's their bodies. They're completely wrong with the wrong genitalia.
Nope, if you suggest they all need bottom surgery then you haven't got the slightest clue about trans ness.
Many if not most trans people absolutely don't want bottom surgery. Some don't even want hormones. It's an elective choice like breast augmentation for women is, or hair transplant is for bald men, and many other examples.
I absolutely disagree with the claim that trans people all feel their body is wrong.
Some trans women are absolutely happy having a dick and erections which is why they want the idea that women can have a dick normalized.
Some trans men are very happy to be able to become pregnant, which is why they want to normalize the idea that men can become pregnant.
Why is that annoying? People change names from time to time, it’s at worst the mildest of inconveniences to make the mental shift. But for them it might be a really big deal, their trying to live their life as a new gender and in comparison the effort of addressing them with their new pronouns seems utterly trivial
Well if you think changing entire personality and fundamentals many times about who you are not a sign of troubles it’s fine .
But I don’t think we all are should condemn by it either by being oblige to confirm unstable frame of mind by their gender .
It really seem to me you conflict gender In video games with real life .
And a person changing names many time is like what ?
Like new persona in wwe ? Artist changing names for better marketing ?
If I see an anorexic person am I oblige to call her fat for her mental well being ?
If gender is so easily manipulated and changing like you change hair colors , mind as well just eradicate the word and its meaning .
Not in my opinion, *IN THEIR OPINION*.
They shout as much as they can it isn't medical. They claim considering trans ness a mental illness is obscene and the same thing that happened to homosexuality for a long time to discriminate against homosexuals and mistreat them.
They convinced me, which is why I am puzzled every time trans issues are discussed as being medical issues, which they clearly aren't at all.
When people clamor (reasonably) ag
Gender dysphoria is the mental illness, transness is the identity.
Yes I contest the existence of GD given trans ness inherently isn't a mental illness.
I contest the existence of GD same as I would oppose someone medicalizing baldness when it "hurts the man too much" to be bald, in order to have to pay for his hairs.
I don't deny some people can feel bad about their bodies. It happens routinely.
I deny medicalizing feeling bad with your own body and justifying body modification as healthcare under that pretense.
Yes I contest the existence of GD given trans ness inherently isn't a mental illness.
I contest the existence of GD same as I would oppose someone medicalizing baldness when it "hurts the man too much" to be bald, in order to have to pay for his hairs.
I don't deny some people can feel bad about their bodies. It happens routinely.
I deny medicalizing feeling bad with your own body and justifying body modification as healthcare under that pret
Do you think ADHD is not a mental illness because some people with ADHD choose to forego treatment for whatever reason?
Do you think ADHD is not a mental illness because some people with ADHD choose to forego treatment for whatever reason?
I think many/most cases of ADHD aren't indeed mental illness and we medicalized pretty normal behavior yes, and it's very bad with extremely bad consequences
