2024 ELECTION THREAD

Man they are being arrested already for blocking infrastructure and so on.

I want those associations whose members block roads, airports, bridges and so on to be labeled terrorist organizations, and longer jail sentences and criminal responsibility for donors and organizers and fund raisers and so on as well, as it is NORMAL for terrorist organizations.

They are already committing politically motivated serious crimes against society at large, that is political terrorism.

Let's start from that which shouldn't be controversial

How do I know you didn't make that up?

Posting 700 names in a single post (or quoting such a post) should be an automatic one-day temp ban.

We're talking about a different thing now than when we started this conversation. The original question I was discussing with E2 was about whether the Dems can be considered left wing. My point isn't that they are far leftist, my point is that they are pretty standard social liberals which are considered center-left in most countries, and a lot of the claims about how far right they are economically doesn't really make sense. Now you want to come in and talk about Italian leftist politics being insane compared to American leftist politics, I mean I'm not an expert on your system so I have no idea. I also won't take your word for it because of the crazy stuff you have said in this thread and others.

Again I explained to you that there are federal funds that are allocated for states to implement certain programs. It's sort of silly to compare the salaries of teachers to implementing a state program to mandate coverage to the uninsured. There are logistical, legal, and political battles that need to be won there in order to make it feasible. I mean we already have a sort of "public option" through medical for instance, but then there's the question of whether we can force people to pay for medical. I think it would be possible to implement a CA medicare for all, but then we're basically gambling that hospitals won't just up and leave under the new system.

I'm open to discussing healthcare systems more in depth but I have the feeling that you don't really care and are just driving at something else.

If you want me to say "ok fine Dems are not left, they are a right-wing party" then sure... I guess I don't care about labels that much. But then I just have no idea what left and right even means, because within the context of the United States and even when you don't just isolate on other OECD nations and look at the entire world, the Dems are pretty socially liberal and economically they advocate for strong safety nets and labor unions.

You are lying about what you said or just using motte and baily. Here is what you said Luciom:

There is absolutely nothing in here about their tactics. You are talking about their beliefs and that they are genocidal and should be thrown in jail. That's disgusting stalinist behavior.

Was this necessary, jackass?

More than the party, I would say the country has really shifted towards Obama on healthcare as a whole, as many predicted. I don't think medicaid expansion under the ACA has lost in even the reddest states where voters have been allowed to decide directly. And not being able to talk about healthcare at all because their opposition to Obamacare has always been performative is dragging on the right.

quoting word bombs like that, especially from people i've taken the time to ignore so i don't have to see that kind of ****, should also be a ban

If only we had someone with mod powers around

It is not just beliefs they are voting on that.

Their representatives in parliament are voting on that.

it is not stalinist to ban parties which monstrous policy ideas inimical to core elements of society, the country with second biggest military in the NATO did it for decades with our collective agreement for example.

and when it stopped things started going bad there.

and yes the "tactics" they have been employing for years here in Europe are part and parcel of my take, I mean they are already showing us they are willing to commit acts of terror for their "cause".

as I wrote let's start from there , maybe it could even be enough.

//

example of a vote that should show you how crazy the people I am talking about are:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20220701IPR34365/taxonomy-meps-do-not-object-to-inclusion-of-gas-and-nuclear-activities

europarl

Taxonomy: MEPs do not object to inclusion of gas and nuclear activities | News | European Parliament

278 members of the EU Parliament (majority 353, it didn't pass), voted to *exclude nuclear and natgas from green electricity sources* (gas was already only considered green as a substitute for coal/oil, not as an additional source).

278, 40%+ of European representatives. they wanted to stop counting nuclear as a clean source and not to count closing a coal plant using a gas one as improvement wrt emissions.

they want 100% solar/wind, and ofc they also have many objections on those (poor birds killed by turbines, pristine landscape ruined by turbines and panels and so on).

and mind that we are already talking inside a framework that already mandates insane emission reductions, ie a framework that is already to the far left of the American one.

it is NEVER enough for them, the goal isn't "only" net zero (which is already crazy and destructive enough by itself), it's total control of all aspects of society.

that's 40% of the EU Parliaments basically with ideas fully incompatible with human life and civilization as we are living it currently.

maybe you don't agree on my "rethoric" about it but do you see how those people and people voting for them are an existential threat to society?

for sure. Dem supporters should get their noses rubbed in it. thats a massive list of ghouls.

Well I think people like yourself should be put in jail with much longer term jail time using hate rhetoric like yourself …

You get now why the use of violence should be kept to a minimum by the state ?

You don’t want too much power in the hands of governments to be able to shut you down with your free speech and libertarian concept of what life should be right ?

You hold a funny stance of being libertarian and yet advocating the kind of government control u demand for ….
China Russia are nice model to your taste it seems .

Ah yes the old : I’m for total freedom but only for the freedom i like .
Those who have a different way of Thinking should be put to jail or death …
No compromise !!! ( nice democratic view about liberty and freedom and democracy …😉

Now imagine if 90% of the others citizen
( ho yes you are that far off from mainstream)
would actually had the power you wish the government have and what they could do to you today !!!

Be careful what you wish for , you might end up on the wrong side of very bad outcomes unknowingly ….
When you give power to someone , make you would not mind your « ennemies » had it and what they could do to you .

I mean I disagree with them but if that’s your example of crazy I guess I just wonder what their reasoning for voting that way is. My understanding is that it has to do with labeling certain energy sources as sustainable for the purposes of investment?

I looked through the Green Deal and it seems pretty solid. Not perfect, and I’m sure there will be growing pains, but it looks like Europe is set up to be a leader in renewable energy. Are we sure that by the time everything is set up you guys won’t be paying less than the rest of the world for energy?

Remember that that's the left party.

I don't know which blatant absurdity they use to oppose nuclear (probably depending on the people, it's different lies about it) but i hope you 1) know that many leftits actually oppose it, that has always been the case 2) accept that they are complety crazy to oppose it.

For natgas, they want a much more rapid transition to "no emissions" in general and "degrowth" in general in the economy, they don't care if it means poverty. So they oppose passing through gas from coal/oil (for electricity production) , they want those plants shut down whatever the consequences.

I don't know what else that crazy / utterly evil you can use to describe someone who thinks reducing emissions is a first order priority above almost everything else for society, yet opposes nuclear.

Crazy, if he actually believes emission reduction is important, then being anti nuclear is utterly crazy.

Evil, if he is pretending emission reduction is the goal while the goal is to dismantle capitalism and so on.

Not sure why you think installing solar panels in ... Germany is going to be a splendid idea, it's not like we haven't done that already at insane costs , costs which before the eu-wide deal german electricity users paid as surplus in their bills.

To reach this (i use pre-covid/ukraine war because it avoids recent complications)

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Reta...

That adds up and should be computed as costs even in the future, all those subsidizes were potentially directable elsewhere and so on.

If in 2028 for a year or two kwh prices are decent that doesn't justify the insane costs, you have to account in RoE terms, with compound interest since inception of the program and so on. One of the worst waste of public money ever tbh.

And the green deal just makes that even worse.

donny da dove threatens the genocide machine, they big mad