Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
Fine, here's one:
100% a lie you've repeated, got caught and denied you ever said it over and over again and engaged in some dumb semantics argument over it, I showed multiple times that you did say it, you shut up after you realized I could use the search function and pull it up so you stopped repeating for awhile, then continue to come back and repeat it even today.
show the lie. in my words.
also, how can it be a lie when it is my interpretation and opinion?
If i wanted to kill a bunch of military soldiers i would definitely go to a music festival on shabbat and assume they were soldiers ...
You have been arguing that Zelenskyy's amoral government is nazi led. This source (once again) disagrees with you.
you claimed I said "led by." then you quoted a post where I said "backed by."
semantically, those are different things. however, given philosopher, interpretation, circumstances, ideology, they could be different.
I seek clarification.
You were claiming you never said Ukraine was led by Nazis. I pointed out a few of the many instances where you said Ukraine is led by Nazis. You continue to state this lie.
I never tried to justify them and obv think that murdering civilians is abhorrent. I am not going to condemn innocent prisoners who are oppressed and violated their entire life when they revolt.
as for narrative, I can only speculate on what their plan was. I dont think it was to just do a bunch of rape and murder. if I had to guess they intended to murder soldiers and take hostages. seems that some fighters proceeded to commit war cri
How are settlements in the west bank oppressing the residents in Gaza?
Why would anyone not condemn someone for intentionally committing an abhorrent act like murdering civilians?
You were claiming you never said Ukraine was led by Nazis. I pointed out a few of the many instances where you said Ukraine is led by Nazis. You continue to state this lie.
Zelensky is jewish, and victor enjoys calling jews Nazis
Don't read too much into it, it's just something he does subconsciously. He can't help himself
Victor works under the assumption that if USA is on one side then that side is automatically evil. Anyone who sides with USA is Nazis. I am not bringing up Zelenskyy because I still care that he calls Zelenskyy an amoral warmonger, I'm bringing it up because it's an instance of Victor obviously getting caught in a lie.
Btw i tend to agree that palestians in Gaza are oppressed prisoners, only detail is that i think the oppressor is Hamas
I'm sorry Trolly, but it's true. You only care when "whites" kill Arabs. And your actions in your every day life and on the internet discussions speak to this truth. You don't spend any time on the Arab on Arab conflicts (or African on African, take your pick).
The thing is, it's not just you. What I'm describing is how it relates to most of the people who take your position.
You fit into the mindset of viewing certain conflicts with the colonizer/colonized lens. The "white" colonizer is a very simple right/wrong powerless/powerful narrative for you to get behind. This is what's happening on college campuses all over America, so believe me you're not some isolated person I'm pointing out alone. You are one of millions, hundreds of millions even.
And this take is not psychotic, it's discussed intellectually all over the world (I'll post a New York Times article). If you pause and consider yourself and the conflicts you care about, you'll discover that what I've described is most definitely you.
Russia vs Ukraine we start to diverge, that's an interesting one. People have trouble defining "power" there, which is why we see such a gap in support for each side across North America.
Anyway this is one of a hundred great articles on this
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world...
If there has been a striking new element in the current cycle of Israeli-Palestinian bloodshed, apart from the scale of the killing, it has been the way that pro-Palestinian protesters have denounced a “settler colonial” Israel, with Palestinians cast as the dark-skinned indigenous people and Israelis as white oppressor interlopers. This was a much less predominant line of argument as recently as the Gaza war of 2014.
Yeah that was already done, my point was that certain statements can only be classed as lying. Being merely obtuse doesn't cover it.
Almost never does one side say "oh, Ive looked at your evidence and concluded that you were right and I was wrong so Ivechanged my mind".so if you are expecting that to happen you are bound to be disappointed.
So present your evidence. If it clearly shows a statement is false, other posters will see that.In their minds you will have won the argument.then if the other poster continues to repeat his position, just ignore him. Stop responding. Declare victory and move on. It takes two to keep a discussion going. You dont have to always let every statement go unchallenged if all you are doing is repeating yourself. Otherwise you fall into a "is...is not...is...is not" string. So if youve convinced the vast majority of posters that you are right, move on. You will never convince 100%.
But dont expect a mod to step in and declare a winner and a loser. The forum will make its own determination on that.
Through the years on 2+2 I've repeatedly given the reason for focusing so much on Israel and you keep ignoring it.
Citizens are responsible for what their governments do. Americans are more responsible for what the U.S. does than for what Syria or Russia does. Presumably, our voice has some tiny impact on the political Weltanschauung.
The United State's diplomatic and military support enable the Israeli occupation. Israeli policy is our poli
This had some great points btw, want to make sure I recognize it.
I think you make an excellent case for your views.
I think we're forever going to disagree on "occupation", how we got to "occupation", how we get out of it. I think choosing the Axis of Hamas-Iran-Russia etc is going to be a bad look over a long enough timeline. But I do respect the basis of your position.
I question though if you understand that Holocaust 2.0 was the price for the USA not supporting Israel at some points. And being ok with that alternate reality is a shocking take.
Btw the stuff Victor posted from the Israeli far right, that's real (them wanting back into Gaza). They are most certainly that nuts.
But for example, Trump is set to do things to the USA that rival even that. By a large margin too. That's not America thought. That's Donald Trump. We have to always remember the gap between a people, and their extreme political parties.
Even the 50% of America who will vote for Trump, aren't Trump. And his grift is so absolute that you can hardly blame them. You can even forgive them.
several lies he says. bigly lies even. lol such weak trolling.
notice how corpus got real quiet when I brought out the cites. he will be back in a few days to make the same claims even tho I just easily made the case.
No, it's just that I quite frankly can't be arsed dealing with your schtick at present. (I recorded Rambo IV last night which I regard as a better way to spend 90 minutes, than five minutes pandering to you.) You're clearly a very disingenuous poster and your citations are shall we say ever so slightly dodgy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Interc...
In February 2016, the site appended lengthy corrections to five stories by reporter Juan M. Thompson and retracted a sixth, about Charleston church shooter Dylann Roof, written over the previous year, focused on the African-American community. Shortly afterward, a note from editor Betsy Reed indicated that Thompson had been fired recently after his editors discovered "a pattern of deception" in his reporting. According to Reed, he had "fabricated several quotes in his stories and created fake email accounts that he used to impersonate people, one of which was a Gmail account in my name".[32]
But beats electronic intifada I suppose.
Anyway I'm not indulging you, just the same old same old with you ad naseum.
If i wanted to kill a bunch of military soldiers i would definitely go to a music festival on shabbat and assume they were soldiers ...
Seems kind of awful of Victor to assume that anyone could be stupid enough to do that tbh.
according to Shin Bet the Israeli intelligence agency, Hamas did not know there was a festival and did not have a plan to attack it in advance.
now I am not going to accuse you guys of being liars or spreading misinformation. but these are basic facts.
I'm sorry Trolly, but it's true. You only care when "whites" kill Arabs. And your actions in your every day life and on the internet discussions speak to this truth.
You don't know the first thing about me or who I care about, so knock it off with the ad homenim bullshit. If you can't defend the IDF's actions without wildly accusing everyone of being an antisemite, you've become unhinged.
US base in Jordan hit and 34 injured and 3 killed. USA has military bases in Jordan? Of course.
now I am not going to accuse you guys of being liars or spreading misinformation. but these are basic facts.
So they did not know about the music festival, but they happened on the music festival, heard the music, saw the unarmed civilians and opened fire anyways thinking they were undercover IDF or what?
Victor works under the assumption that if USA is on one side then that side is automatically evil. Anyone who sides with USA is Nazis. I am not bringing up Zelenskyy because I still care that he calls Zelenskyy an amoral warmonger, I'm bringing it up because it's an instance of Victor obviously getting caught in a lie.
I never called Zelenskyy a Nazi. I may have called Zaluzhny one, you know the guy who runs the army and praises Bandera and has his picture that he displays on facebook.
once again, I urge you to show the lie. not your own summarization, but my actual lie.
In a quote where I say you called Zelenskyy an amoral warmonger you are saying you never called Zelenskyy a Nazi... ok, that's great. Almost has to do with the quote.
If you're referring to the conversation I linked to then feel free to read the conversation and you can read your most recent post as proof.
[QUOTE=Trolly McTrollson;58439713]You don't know the first thing about me or who I care about, so knock it off with the ad homenim bullshit. If you can't defend the IDF's actions without wildly accusing everyone of being an antisemite, you've become unhinged.[/QUOTE]
I actually don't think you're antisemitic, that's the other guy.
I do think you fit right into the culture war powerful/powerless white/dark bucket that most people fit in (The Claudine Gay echo chamber). That's not at all antisemitism.
You not fitting into that would be a huge anomaly for what it's worth (99% of people in America supporting Hamas do). So the odds of you being in it are not remotely low or an insult to you. It's just very 2024.
I can discuss all the ways the "white" and "powerful" argument fails on this one. But I suspect you're still not over the idea that this is what's actually happening.
Almost never does one side say "oh, Ive looked at your evidence and concluded that you were right and I was wrong so Ivechanged my mind".so if you are expecting that to happen you are bound to be disappointed.
So present your evidence. If it clearly shows a statement is false, other posters will see that.In their minds you will have won the argument.then if the other poster continues to repeat his position, just ignore him. Stop responding.
no they actually dont need to do that. case in point.
No, it's just that I quite frankly can't be arsed dealing with your schtick at present. (I recorded Rambo IV last night which I regard as a better way to spend 90 minutes, than five minutes pandering to you.) You're clearly a very disingenuous poster and your citations are shall we say ever so slightly dodgy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Interc...
But beats electronic intifada I suppose.
Anyway I'm not indulging you, just th
also dont forget corpus expressed tons of skepticism on the terrorist chemical attack by IDF soldiers at Columbia which has since been proven as true.
theres a reason he wont "indulge" and thats bc he gets owned every time facts.
