Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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It is appointed unto man once to die.
Almost 20% of IDF causalities have been friendly fire. We're really talking about a significant percent of the total.
Are you suggesting the IDF is killing their own maliciously and for revenge?
Or is urban warfare a heck of a lot more complicated than you think?
At this moment it's not very important whether Israel intentionally fired at what they knew was an aid convoy (unlikely imo) or whether they intentionally fired at what they thought wasn't an aid convoy but ended up being one.
Whether due to incompetence or maliciousness, NGOs aren't going to keep sending workers into areas if notifying Israel doesn't guarantee their safety. This isn't the first instance either. The food situation is bad eno
I don't really care (At this moment, until food is getting to those starving) whether it is malicious or incompetence. It being difficult is not an excuse for what is going on. If urban warfare is too difficult for IDF to do then they need to stop urban warfare altogether.
I don't really care (At this moment, until food is getting to those starving) whether it is malicious or incompetence. It being difficult is not an excuse for what is going on. If urban warfare is too difficult for IDF to do then they need to stop urban warfare altogether.
It doesn't matter if it's too difficult or not BGP. The fight came to them. The decision has been made to make sure that can't be a thing anymore. So difficult or not, they're doing this one and Hezbollah shortly after.
But a version where Sinwar gets to climb out of a tunnel and claim victory would be absolutely catastrophic for Israel. Their enemies would be made immensely more brazen after.
They're sending their sons and daughters in there because it's difficult. Not because it's easy.
Then IDF will be responsible for both their incompetent actions and their malicious actions, there's clearly a lot of both.
I do not think it's clear that choosing to go that path is a good idea for Israel long term. Their level of incompetence and maliciousnes is shocking.
Learning on the go as civilians die due to your ineptitude is going to draw a lot of criticism.
Then IDF will be responsible for both their incompetent actions and their malicious actions, there's clearly a lot of both.
I do not think it's clear that choosing to go that path is a good idea for Israel long term. Their level of incompetence and maliciousnes is shocking.
Learning on the go as civilians die due to your ineptitude is going to draw a lot of criticism.
To an extent, sure. But fighting an enemy that chooses to launch attacks from behind women and children is going to mean more than one responsible party.
Even in Southern Lebanon, the antitank missiles and rockets don't just get launched from random fields and platforms. It's immersed as close to civilians as humanly possible. Often from inside their homes through openings. I won't use the IDF claims, check this one:
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202403274605
Lebanon’s Christians Decry Being Used As Human Shields By Hezbollah
That sort of evil is hard to fully comprehend. It doesn't exist in many theatres of war. Even the Russians fight significantly cleaner, and I have no love for them.
But as others have said in this thread before, no other country just leaves this sort of active threat yards from the border. So this one shouldn't be asked to either. We know North and South Korea stare each other down all the time. Imagine if the North was constantly launching actual attacks?
I might dig it up...saw an article months ago about how in previous bombing campaign Israel could approve maybe a couple/few targets a day and with AI they were approving hundreds of targets a day.
I agree and I have said similar itt. Even taking that into account IDF is not acting, or performing, the way they should be. There are clearly enormous issues in the military which should have been fixed months ago which have not only not been fixed, but worsened.
IDF was not prepared for this type of warfare, and I see little evidence they are improving at it. I support Israel responding to Hamas, but not in the way they are doing, and apparently are forced to do because of their incompetence or maliciousness.
I agree and I have said similar itt. Even taking that into account IDF is not acting, or performing, the way they should be. There are clearly enormous issues in the military which should have been fixed months ago which have not only not been fixed, but worsened.
IDF was not prepared for this type of warfare, and I see little evidence they are improving at it. I support Israel responding to Hamas, but not in the way they are doing, and appa
BGP the data does not support your claim. The ratios of Hamas dead to civilian dead has improved with every passing month. The civilian death toll per month has largely dropped.
That doesn't mean there aren't horrific incidents. But on average, we are nowhere near where we were.
Btw they were told that NO military could pull of Gaza. The USA told them that. The Brits told them that. So far privately, both militaries have been shocked at how effective the campaign has been (purely from a Hamas vs IDF loses metric). The Israelis weren't prepared for Gaza because nobody could be, that kind of fight has never existed. That sort of tunnel system, that many civilians layered in (half of them kids). But I'd say they are ready to finish it now (and they're definitely going to go at it alone).
I do not see how a month by month comparison can be meaningful in any way considering Israel concluded the first part of their operation. Of course casualties will drop significantly. Each month has not been the same methods of fighting.
Do you think the civilian death toll will remain "low", or the ratio will remain "low", when the next major operation begins? If it climbs due to the start of another major operation does that prove that IDF is actually getting worse?
This is also not taking into account that the potential famine building up could lead to an immense civilian death toll which is not going to be reflected in the current months stats.
BGP the data does not support your claim. The ratios of Hamas dead to civilian dead has improved with every passing month. The civilian death toll per month has largely dropped.
That doesn't mean there aren't horrific incidents. But on average, we are nowhere near where we were.
Btw they were told that NO military could pull of Gaza. The USA told them that. The Brits told them that. So far privately, both militaries have been shocked at how
Israel has pretty clearly been killing fewer people. Reports have held at 30-50k depending on who says it for a couple months. Hopefully the numbers don't go crazy again when whatever is supposed to happen at Rafa happens. Also, heading towards large numbers of deaths from starvation.
This is now Israel's longest war since 1948.
They are just finishing what they started in 1948. It never really stopped.
I might dig it up...saw an article months ago about how in previous bombing campaign Israel could approve maybe a couple/few targets a day and with AI they were approving hundreds of targets a day.
https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassinatio...
Probably this one
The one I posted earlier today is an update. It has a lot more detail. This is an AI generated genocide.
Here's the update.
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israe...
No person should be ok with this. I have no problem equating the people who support this as modern day Nazis. At some point in time, hopefully sooner rather than later, the star of David will have the same connotation as the swastika.
I dont think Putin is trying to wipe out Ukrainian identity or the Ukrainian people. the civilian death tolls show this. we have seen nothing in Ukraine that is remotely like what is going on in Gaza.
when the Western media spent years writing pieces about how there were a bunch of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine, was that a slur?
also, I kinda want to see where I called Israel Nazis. and I want to see when. so I am not sure why there is all o
I was too lazy to go through old posts.
ya but thats not what you say it is.
anyway, glad to see you have finally come a long way in your perception of this event.
My view hasn't really changed.
Looks exactly like you're comparing them to nazis to me.
History wasn't your strong subject I'm guessing.
I do not see how a month by month comparison can be meaningful in any way considering Israel concluded the first part of their operation. Of course casualties will drop significantly. Each month has not been the same methods of fighting.
Do you think the civilian death toll will remain "low", or the ratio will remain "low", when the next major operation begins? If it climbs due to the start of another major operation does that prove that IDF
Step 1 is to evacuate the civilian population of Rafah before they go after Philadelpi and the rest of what's waiting underground. If they can succeed in moving all those people, there's some reason for "optimism". Pretty big air quotes there because it's still the best case among a series of worst cases. Now that the IDF has figured out tunnel warfare, I do think we can expect less dead than say phase 1 of the war.
If there are 8 battalions of Hamas waiting on Rafah, we could certainly see 5 figure deaths in Rafah. And it will absolutely be terrible.
oh well thats too bad you are still with them on this. unsurprising. liberals love war.
I mentioned it before, but you're really going to dislike when Trump and Polievre are the right leaning North American block. I think you're going to be shocked when those gloves come off, in terms of how it relates to this conflict.
History wasn't your strong subject I'm guessing.
Step 1 is to evacuate the civilian population of Rafah before they go after Philadelpi and the rest of what's waiting underground. If they can succeed in moving all those people, there's some reason for "optimism". Pretty big air quotes there because it's still the best case among a series of worst cases. Now that the IDF has figured out tunnel warfare, I do think we can expect less dead than
they arent even trying tunnel warfare lol. they are just going into hospitals and murdering people.
anyway, I can recall a famous example where step 1 was to evacuate people. to Africa. we all saw what step 2 was when this Madagascar Plan was unfeasible. in this modern scenario, didnt you guys try to "evacuate" the Gazans to Congo or something? hmmm, wonder where we are in the timeline now.
This says a lot more about you than it does about me. You have a strong desire to rid all critical thinking from issues and paint things as entirely black and white.
This is how you arrived at Israel and Ukraine are nazis, or led by nazis, or nazi-esque or however you want to attempt to obfuscate your views today even though they are very clear to all.
I highly doubt you have any clue what my views are even after they've been explained to very clearly multiple times.
I dont think there has ever been a more black and white issue in my life than the genocide going in Gaza right now.
