Ukraine-Russia War Take 2
Here is what the preliminary take on the Ukraine thread disappearing is:
The site was hit with a massive spam attack where hundreds of spam threads were created. In the case where, for example, I see a single spam thread and delete it, that is called a soft delete, and mods can still see them but forum members cannot. Those deletion can be undone.
When a massive attack hits with hundreds of threads, an admin uses a different procedure where the hundreds of spam threads are merged and then hard deleted, where the threads are gone, and no note is left behind. As I have mentioned with my own experience of just soft deleting a large number of posts, sometimes a post or thread gets checked or merged accidentally and is deleted by mistake. Dealing with hundreds of spam threads takes a sledgehammer, not a scalpel.
It appears that our Ukraine thread may have gotten caught up in that recent net of spam threads. If so, it is likely gone for good. I cant say this for sure, and am awaiting comments from admins on this issue. Yes, this sucks. And hopefully there was some other software glitch that caused the disappearance, and we may recover it in the future.
But in the meantime, I have created this new Ukraine-Russia War thread to enable the conversation to continue. Obviously continuity with earlier discussions will be lost. There is no way around that. So as best as possible, let's pick up the conversation with recent events and go from there.
If you have any questions about this, please post them in the mod thread, not here. Let's keep this thread going with posts about the war, not the disappearance of the old thread.
Thanks.
She doesn't want peace, she uses the word as a euphemism for genocide and murder just like you do since you both take your cues from the Kremlin.
Putin has made it incredibly obvious that the options are not war or peace. It is war where the defenders can defend themselves or war where the defenders can't defend themselves. Most people have a moral compass and vote for the former.
This framing of capitulation being "pro peace" is probably Put
ofc she doesnt want peace. she is a part of the Liberal Elite Imperial core. and thats why I dont give a **** what she says even if for this one small slice it coincides with my support of an agenda.
the fact is, you yourself agree with her far more than me as a whole.
vic do you side with putin rn in the conflict
no I want a cease fire.
I have said this many times but I will say it again. I dont think Putin should have invaded. I dont support his invasion. but I think the USA really really wanted this war and its about 5050 on the blame.
I absolutely dont support perpetuating this idiotic bloodletting.
ofc she doesnt want peace. she is a part of the Liberal Elite Imperial core. and thats why I dont give a **** what she says even if for this one small slice it coincides with my support of an agenda.
the fact is, you yourself agree with her far more than me as a whole.
I'm sure your motivations are different. The point is that you two are buying the same Russian propaganda, saying the same things, and arriving at the same conclusions. If she actually doesn't want peace and instead wants what? War? Russian victory over Ukraine? IDK doesn't matter. If whatever she wants is best suited by not giving aid to Ukraine and what she wants is at odds with what you claim to want (peace) then use some of your critical thinking skills and see where it takes you.
Putin does not want peace. In 2022 he wants a peace deal which enables him to invade again more successfully.
Today he does not want peace. He wants aid to Ukraine to dry up so he can kill, forcefully deport, mass execute those who oppose him, topple the government, kidnap children to brainwash and all the other things you say aren't genocide. He has straight up said he isn't looking for peace when he was spoonfed a question to get him to say he wants peace for propaganda purpose. What he said is that we stop supplying Ukraine with aid, we look away for awhile, and the problem goes away. It's pretty clear what happens when we look away for awhile after starving Ukraine of the ability to defend themselves. We just saw this: USA refused aid for months, and Russia used that advantage to increase their frequency of attacks.
We are well past the point where anyone can claim ignorance of Putin's motives and use BS Kremlin narratives like arming Ukraine is "pro war" or "warmongering" while denying them aid is "pro peace". It was always nonsense, it's still nonsense now. There's absolutely no excuse for not understanding this.
Victor: that doesn't answer the question. Don't sea lion me, I'm not going through all that. Choose a source.
thats not sealioning.
You've posted 4 articles, none of which support what you've said, and are presenting them as evidence when they are not. You're trying to put the burden on me to go through and prove how those 4 articles don't actually support what you've said. I'm not doing that, it's 100% sealioning.
you dont need to prove anything. just accept the fact that enough weapons and aid is diverted to the black market that even Western sources are writing articles about it. I am not making a value judgement.
To the best of my knowledge there's been nothing showing that.
Just from browsing the 4 articles you sent I can see that two of them are Referencing things from before the full scale invasion. One is likely discussing the blackmailed required to get arms into Ukraine at the start of the war when Kyiv was under siege.
You've pasted 4 articles which I doubt prove what you are trying to say. They also all deal with arms, and not a single one with cash, but feel free to narrow it down and we can look at a specific one.
Still looking to be amazed by where the cash is going with no oversight!
are you telling me the mainstream media is lying? well I never...
On that insipid note, everyone take the rest of the night off
Bgp: none of those articles say what you are claiming.
Victor: are you saying the articles are lying?
ok I am wrong. all of the money an weapons are going to Zelenskys brave freedom fighters who are totally not slaves kidnapped off the street and nothing is going to the black market. thanks for setting me straight. slava ukraina!
Deep
No one is saying Ukraine is perfect, but that's far closer to the truth than the Russian propaganda you are accepting at face value.
ok I am wrong. all of the money an weapons are going to Zelenskys brave freedom fighters who are totally not slaves kidnapped off the street and nothing is going to the black market. thanks for setting me straight. slava ukraina!
thats whats necessary once you engage in defense
No one is saying Ukraine is perfect, but that's far closer to the truth than the Russian propaganda you are accepting at face value.
agreed
get that **** outta your head.
everything I dont like is Russian propaganda. a babies view of the world. or antisemtism.
your problem BGP is that you are like a small child that wanders into something. you have never read anything or critically analyzed anything. it totally breaks your brain that Western warmongering could be bad.
his whole life he has been told that he is the good guy and all of the people on the tv are good guys. he just cant fathom that we are the baddies. its pretty pathetic bc I understood this concept when I was 5.
Projecting.
"Can't refute, ad hominem"
refute what?
like do you understand how words work?
No one is saying Ukraine is perfect, but that's far closer to the truth than the Russian propaganda you are accepting at face value.
Refute:
prove (a statement or theory) to be wrong or false; disprove.
You cannot refute the quote above because you cannot prove it to be wrong or false. (How these words work.)
Seriously Twitter has fried your brain. Go outside, touch grass, delete Twitter.
no I want a cease fire.
I have said this many times but I will say it again. I dont think Putin should have invaded. I dont support his invasion. but I think the USA really really wanted this war and its about 5050 on the blame.
I absolutely dont support perpetuating this idiotic bloodletting.
You want a cease fire, and what do you want Donbass to be? russian or ukrainian? Crimea?
You want a cease fire without russians leaving? that's what Putin wants.
And what's your plan to guarantee ukraine won't be attacked in 5, 10, 20 years from now again if you get your cease fire and allow the russians to keep Crimea and Donbass?
Do you agree guaranteeing ukraine won't be attacked ever again by russia is very important?
why would I care who gets Donbass and Crimea?
