2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
Your posts remind me of a school kid who tried to pick on other people to fit it. There is no we it’s an online forum. And stop insulting people. It’s not necessary
This last dnc should prove to you guys they are the same side. Red and blue are the same
Well, since we're reminiscing, your posts remind me of the kid who spent 4 years in third grade. But thanks for your posting tips all the same, I have filed them in my in-tray.
The left thinks that communism and socialism will work despite it being a disaster in every country it has been tried, so don’t talk to liberals about contorting into pretzels.
it worked pretty well tbh. massive increases in quality of life, life span, and innovations.
regardless, thats not really the scope of this discussion. if you want to continue there is a thread for it.
this thread is for loling at the Dems and liberals who are now indistinguishable for mid 2010s Republicans on almost all points.
it worked pretty well tbh. massive increases in quality of life, life span, and innovations.
regardless, thats not really the scope of this discussion. if you want to continue there is a thread for it.
this thread is for loling at the Dems and liberals who are now indistinguishable for mid 2010s Republicans on almost all points.
if it worked well in any actual sense why did eve single socialist-communist country have to ban emigration, with a lot of people wanting to flee and almost no one wanting to join the "well working" experiment?
the real world is that when the wall in Berlin was destroyed, people run from communism to capitalism. that's the only proof of what works in reality.
these days Cuba has to kidnap the families of the people they let operate outside their borders (physicians, sport champions), otherwise they know they will all flee
and they refused because it was blatantly not enough.
it was a lie that the deal was tough (for republican standards), for right-wing people the normal amount of illegals you let trespass is 0, you target 0, you shoot to kill if necessary with no problems, and you target 0 no Vetted asylum seekers as well.
you know you can't necessarily make it 0 but 0 is the only moral number and the only acceptable number ideologically for any plan, knowing
thats all well and good and not at all relevant to my point. my point is that its pure liberal hypocrisy that the guys who ran on "immigration is on the ballot" and who whined about kids in cages in 2020 tried to pass a completely antithetical Republican bill 4 years later.
thats all well and good and not at all relevant to my point. my point is that its pure liberal hypocrisy that the guys who ran on "immigration is on the ballot" and who whined about kids in cages in 2020 tried to pass a completely antithetical Republican bill 4 years later.
your point is that vaguely moderate policies that don't 100% ascribe to pure leftism are indistinguishable from actual right-wing policies, and your point is simply false.
When Luciom is the undisputed voice of reason in a dialogue, you can pretty safely assume the other guy is a lost cause.
Just watched the last night of the dnc that we recorded.
Kinzinger brought it.
I'll admit that when kamala was picked to run with the ball I was a little skeptical. But she absolutely knocked it out of the park.
Is it just me or is the democratic party the republican party of years ago?
Certainly not just you, Victor is on side there.
When Luciom is the undisputed voice of reason in a dialogue, you can pretty safely assume the other guy is a lost cause.
people like him are why the right has a chance in many countries though so I can't really say I am sorry they exist.
if the left had all united with a compact from the equivalent of victor to the equivalent of rococo in Italy Meloni would have lost
Just watched the last night of the dnc that we recorded.
Kinzinger brought it.
I'll admit that when kamala was picked to run with the ball I was a little skeptical. But she absolutely knocked it out of the park.
Is it just me or is the democratic party the republican party of years ago?
I mean, how many times have the liberals celebrated Kinzinger? his is an actual Republican!
man this is like when they claimed Obamacare was a republican policy because the most left-leaning republican in a deep blue state passed something close to it.
an ex governor that lost "his" state (to the left) by 23 anyway when he run for president lol.
any plan for the border that doesn't have mayorkas in jail isn't a republican plan
people like him are why the right has a chance in many countries though so I can't really say I am sorry they exist.
if the left had all united with a compact from the equivalent of victor to the equivalent of rococo in Italy Meloni would have lost
Rococo's intelligence and understanding of, inter alia, politics, is probably like 3 standard deviations from the mean. You're never going to get a majority or compact of Rococos, just by how normal distribution works.
Rococo's intelligence and understanding of, inter alia, politics, is probably like 3 standard deviations from the mean. You're never going to get a majority or compact of Rococos, just by how normal distribution works.
I used him to define the right-most border of what could still be in a center left coalition.
from victor to him meaning from the extremist left to the very moderate and centrist no nonsense which could team up on the left if the platform is reasonable (or the opposition disastrous).
thanks mostly to the victors of the world, those coalitions are extremely rare so the right has a shot more often than it could otherwise
I used him to define the right-most border of what could still be in a center left coalition.
from victor to him meaning from the extremist left to the very moderate and centrist no nonsense which could team up on the left if the platform is reasonable (or the opposition disastrous).
thanks mostly to the victors of the world, those coalitions are extremely rare so the right has a shot more often than it could otherwise
I get what you mean. I am making the observation that I find how politically moderate someone is to be positively correlated with high intelligence and deep understanding of issues, which means that you will find the majority of people further away from the centre. This is my pet theory and I have no sources to back it up.
How strongly correlated tho
I get what you mean. I am making the observation that I find how politically moderate someone is to be positively correlated with high intelligence and understanding of issues, which means that you will find the majority of people further away from the centre. This is my pet theory and I have no sources to back it up.
Might be the case today in the USA but in many places in europe it's just old well off people, somewhat educated (but not necessarily too much) and pretty satisfied with their own personal lives.
"status quo is the king" kind of people.
Even if they have no clue about actual policy and stuff. In Italy the saying went "moriremo tutti democristiani". "at the end of life we are all christian democrats" (the centrist party that ruled italy for many decades, always playing both sides).
that's because the italian communist party won an insane 30% of the popular vote (vs 33% of the centrists) in 1983 and the communist newspaper published "NON moriremo democristiani" (we will not die as christian democrats).
Given that even with 30% to the communists they didn't manage anything of substance, and further elections eroded that result, the saying became that we will all die as centrists.
So, this was just to say how centrism , political moderation, has a different feeling in different countries.
To confirm, since I didn't make it clear - I was speaking to the current political climate in the USA specifically.
Not sure if the Italian saying you mentioned might have a similar meaning to "there are no atheists in foxholes" in English (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_...).
To confirm, since I didn't make it clear - I was speaking to the current political climate in the USA specifically.
Not sure if the Italian saying you mentioned might have a similar meaning to "there are no atheists in foxholes" in English (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_...).
No i think the foxholes thing is about actual beliefs in a greater power.
The italian saying is just something about "the more you get old the more you move toward the center" (which btw isn't necessarily true in all countries, i know), and no matter how many iterations of coalitions we end up with, the centrist part of any coalition is going to rule (this, for now, has always been true except for like 3 years since ww2, 2018-2020).
That's just what i think the name for "democrazia cristiana" is for foreigners , the mono-party who ruled 1946-1991 in italy (always in the ruling coalition, always as the major partner).
A more centrist version of their german equivalent
there are a lot of people using socialism to define their politics in the democratic party right now.
why aren't they treated like explicit white supremacists would in the republican party, at the very least?
It’s because they’re not using the word socialism correctly. What they actually want is social democracy, what they call it is democratic socialism. Democratic socialism has as much basis in socialism as social liberalism has with classical liberalism. They share similar analysis but come to much different conclusions.
I will say that if anyone tries to legitimately push Marxist-style socialism I will absolutely condemn them for it.
it worked pretty well tbh. massive increases in quality of life, life span, and innovations.
regardless, thats not really the scope of this discussion. if you want to continue there is a thread for it.
this thread is for loling at the Dems and liberals who are now indistinguishable for mid 2010s Republicans on almost all points.
If you’re going to keep bringing up failed marxist talking points, I’ll keep insulting socialism. I’m sure the quality of life went up for the people of Cambodia lol
For real though, any quality of life increases from rural peasantry to socialism are vastly smaller than quality of life increases from the same to liberalism. As well, with the increase in industrialization there was then massive increases in political oppression and controlling the narrative through the media. The numbers can’t be trusted because they are openly manipulated. That’s the genius of authoritarian regimes.
If you’re going to keep bringing up failed marxist talking points, I’ll keep insulting socialism. I’m sure the quality of life went up for the people of Cambodia lol
For real though, any quality of life increases from rural peasantry to socialism are vastly smaller than quality of life increases from the same to liberalism. As well, with the increase in industrialization there was then massive increases in political oppress
If you think you're going to get through to Victor with facts, logic, and reason, I am afraid you will soon discover that you are sorely misguided and your time is better spent pissing in the wind.
It’s because they’re not using the word socialism correctly. What they actually want is social democracy, what they call it is democratic socialism. Democratic socialism has as much basis in socialism as social liberalism has with classical liberalism. They share similar analysis but come to much different conclusions.
I will say that if anyone tries to legitimately push Marxist-style socialism I will absolutely condemn them for
no its an objective fact that quality of life, life span, education, medicine, technology skyrocketed in China, Russia, and Cuba. and that was despite all 3 fighting off technologically advanced murderous Western capitalist powers.
you can argue that it would have went up anyway, but we will never know. and there are plenty of places that have continued to be oppressed and exploited by the West. like, is the USA offering up liberal democracy to the slaves in Congo? lol.
and as addendum, quality of life drastically declined and mortality drastically increased in Russia after the fall of the SU.
