SE Hoya Containment Thread (aka Politics)
Welcome to the Official SE Politics Thread. The aim here is for high quality political discussion and debate. The concomitant aim here is for that high quality discussion and debate to NOT devolve into MAD posting, BAD posting, trolling, name-calling our community fracture.
We embark on this project hoping to encourage fair and thorough exchanges of views, and also fair and thorough advocacy for positions. We should learn a lot.
Rules
1. Posters are required to have 50 posts in SE over the last 365 days. This thread is not a proxy for the Politics forum, or an arena for goal-based issue advocacy from people we don't even know.
2. Pure devil's advocacy will not be tolerated unless it is identified by that poster as the aim of the particular post. There will be no run of the mill nitpickery for the sake of nitpickery.
3. This will be enforced loosely, but you are obligated to outline your basic position on whatever issue you're debating. We will not have loaded, gotcha-style internet-standard race to the bottom terrible posting in this thread. That does not mean you have to state every closely-held belief in every debate. You just can't hide the ball. "I'm not sure what my position is" is a completely valid position to hold.
4. Insults are out. You will not resort to that in this thread, because that will ruin this thread.
5. If you demonstrate an ongoing commitment to lowering the quality of discourse through incessant trolling or simply being really terrible, you'll be removed from this thread.
6. These are subject to significant revision as this thread develops.
There is a tradition in SE of better, fuller, funnier discussion of a really wide range of topics. Let's continue that here.
really wish fascists would figure out if no one wants to work or no one wants to stay home anymore
or maybe someone could explain to that moran that not everyone is on an nfl salary, so the ladies can't afford to stay in the kitchen these days. wanna do anything about that, guy? no? stfu then
yeah maybe it's an acquired taste idk, doesn't bother me anymore. worth powering through for the mostly correct takes imo
I dunno Hasan had one of those Houthi pirates on.
He's questionable.
I follow Secular Talk, Majority Report, David Pakman, and sometimes Breaking Points and Rational National for an even amount of correct takes.
https://theintercept.com/2024/05/15/isra...
THE LEGENDARY PRUSSIAN military theorist Carl von Clausewitz, whose works remain an influence on U.S. military officers today, wrote in his famous 19th-century treatise “On War” that “war is merely the continuation of politics by other means.” A military general himself advising on how best to wage an armed conflict, Clausewitz nonetheless reminded his readers that the purpose of war is to achieve political goals, not to pursue violence as end to itself, or as a wholesale substitute for diplomacy.
Clausewitz’s words would have been well-heeded by the U.S. and Israel before the start of the current war in the Gaza Strip, which has now reached a painful yet predictable impasse. So far, tens of thousands of Palestinians have been killed or wounded, Israel now faces genocide charges at the International Court of Justice, and Hamas control is already returning to parts of Gaza previously declared conquered by Israel.
Israeli military officials are now going public with criticisms that the war in Gaza had been misguided for a simple reason that Clausewitz himself would have recognized: Besides revenge, the war never had a clear political strategy or objective.
i mean they have an objective; to kill or move every palestinian out of the country
[...] Well before October 7, the Israeli government decided that the Palestinians, whether in the West Bank or Gaza, were no longer politically relevant. Rather than dealing with the Palestinians as political agents, Israeli leaders have taken the position that Palestinians are merely a subject population to be suppressed and controlled with a mixture of military, technological, and economic tools.
While continuing a policy of blockading and periodically bombing Gaza, Israel has either ignored or rejected the Palestinian Authority’s calls, with the support of international law, for a two-state solution. Instead, Israel proceeded unilaterally with its colonization and annexation of the West Bank, cementing a consensus among major human rights groups that Israel is an apartheid state.
[...] From a U.S. perspective, Biden’s reflexive backing for a war that has proven to be equal parts aimless and brutal has now trapped the U.S. in a situation where it is the primary enabler of an alleged genocide.
The war has not only tarnished America’s reputation abroad but is also increasingly tearing at its own social fabric. Even diehard subscribers to the U.S. foreign policy consensus have been forced to reckon with the failures of treating the Palestinians as politically irrelevant.
[...] The Gaza war began in the heat of emotion after Hamas’s attacks against Israeli civilian communities. It was quickly advertised to the Israeli public as a war to eradicate the group entirely. Yet seven months later, with tens of thousands of Palestinians dead and wounded, Israel remains mired in the territory with no prospect of an endgame in sight.
[...] The political landscape in Israel doesn’t offer much solace. Israel’s government contains far-right and even openly fascist ministers. Gallant, for his part, is considered a “mainstream” political figure in the country — a stark demonstration of just how much politics in Israel has moved away from the realm of diplomacy and negotiation.
[...] The U.S. enables Israel’s continued digging of this ditch, despite overwhelming international consensus that it is violating international law. The unquestioning support and diplomatic cover it has received from successive U.S. governments, most recently from the Biden administration, has allowed a small country to defy global norms and public opinion, as it descends into a North Korea-like posture of paranoia and defiance.
Biden is now tanking in the polls, despite his own reported disbelief.
whaaat!? the kids don't like my genocide??
lmao
If he loses the next election after enabling all of Israel’s worst tendencies, he will go down not only as the leader who handed the presidency back to Donald Trump, but also as a diplomatic failure. He will have locked a superpower into a relationship with a client state that has long since abandoned diplomacy and international law in exchange for apartheid, endless war, and the use of brutal, even eliminationist force to address its problems.
Clausewitz himself warned of the shortcomings of such an approach. “The political object is the goal, war is the means of reaching it, and the means can never be considered in isolation from their purposes,” he wrote. For Israel, and the U.S. alongside it, the future is one in which war will likely continue to be waged with no clear goals at all.
again, the goal is kill/clear them all, and usa#1 is here to ensure that happens
Isn't it about over? Once they clear out the south what's left? They may have certain people they are looking for, but seems to be winding down. Do they plan to occupy? If so, they need to get aid in, or it's really bad look. Not sure what they want but if they got who they wanted, this can be over soon.
Isn't it about over? Once they clear out the south what's left? They may have certain people they are looking for, but seems to be winding down. Do they plan to occupy? If so, they need to get aid in, or it's really bad look. Not sure what they want but if they got who they wanted, this can be over soon.
ok, a few things:
1. the article mentions what i've heard elsewhere; that hamas has already returned to areas that they've previously obliterated. wouldn't be surprised if israel doesn't care about this, as it enables them to continue playing whack-a-mole bombing anything and everything indefinitely, killing thousands more palestinian civilians, their true goal
2. yes they probably plan to force whoever survives out of the country and finish stealing all the land. zionists only in israel
3. apparently netanyahu, like trump, has legal issues. and apparently him extending this genocide allows him to avoid those issues and stay in power. have seen a bunch of reports saying israel expects this to go on for 10+ years (or until all the palestinians are dead/gone, which ever comes first). maybe it won't go 10 years, but i think they want to do this for as long as possible
4. israel hates the dems and want trump in power, so i'd be stunned if this ended before november
5. get aid in? they've literally been killing anyone trying to do that for a while now (since october prob but i don't remember specifically). they want to starve anyone not being exploded
I can’t possibly imagine the plan is occupation. Gazans won’t recognize an Israeli government as rulers and Netanyahu probably doesn’t want to rule over gazans. I assume this ends when Muslims represent the minority of Gaza
I can’t possibly imagine the plan is occupation. Gazans won’t recognize an Israeli government as rulers and Netanyahu probably doesn’t want to rule over gazans. I assume this ends when Muslims represent the minority of Gaza
According to Ron Ben-Yishai, in his dual role as Finance Minister and adjunct Minister in the Ministry of Defense, Smotrich intends to implement ideas set forth in his "Decisive Plan" (2017) which, according to Ben-Yishai, foresees: “Flood[ing], simply so, the areas of Judea and Samaria with settlements and Jewish settlers. When this happens, the Palestinians are supposed to understand that they have no chance to get a state of their own, and they would have to choose between one of the three options – a life of subjugation under Israeli rule, emigration, or a shahid [martyr] death”
Conservative Israelis are mask-off in a way that American Republicans use as porn.
Biden, whose administration has reviewed the tariff rates over the past year, is keeping intact more than $300 billion in tariffs imposed by former President Donald Trump. The tariff increases include:
Electric vehicles from China: from 25% to 100% beginning this year.
Semiconductors from China: from 25% to 50% by 2025.
Lithium-ion batteries from China used in electric vehicles: from 7.5% to 25% this year.
Solar cells imported from China: from 25% to 50% this year.
Steel and aluminum products: from zero-7.5% to 25% this year.
Ship-to-shore container cranes imported from China: from zero to 25% this year
Hospital syringes and needles made in China: from zero to 50% this year.
Even Elon has said they are making some good Electric cars. Sucks, there could be some cheap decent cars for sale. Ah well.
This seems agressive.
Dems really have gone full mask off fascist lately. They've been on the wrong side of every civil rights movement ever and they continue to be against the people.
Have fun losing in November because supporting a genocidal regime was more important.
Biden, whose administration has reviewed the tariff rates over the past year, is keeping intact more than $300 billion in tariffs imposed by former President Donald Trump. The tariff increases include:
Electric vehicles from China: from 25% to 100% beginning this year.
Semiconductors from China: from 25% to 50% by 2025.
Lithium-ion batteries from China used in electric vehicles: from 7.5% to 25% this year.
Solar cells imported f
Chinese EVs are fully waxing our muffins right now.
Which do you want: people get awesome cars but US auto manufacturers are decimated OR you protect manufacturers in the short term but make consumers deal with an inferior product?
The answer probably depends on whether or not your job relies on voters
Biden, whose administration has reviewed the tariff rates over the past year, is keeping intact more than $300 billion in tariffs imposed by former President Donald Trump.
thank the gods there's such a gigantic difference between these two psychopathic senile geezers
"greenest president ever" gonna save the world by losing a trade war with china, and flooding the country with elon musk's exploding soup cans on wheels. oh wait it won't, and he doesn't give a **** because he'll be dead within ~5 years
seems like he's going busto for the ~20th time ... guessing the usa#1 government will respond by giving him another trillion dollars or whatever because he's too big to fail, for some reason. you know, their usual response when a billionaire decides to fire a bunch of ppl...
nobody saw it coming
we're doing it for the jobs!!! (even though they're always firing thousands of ppl)
thank the gods there's such a gigantic difference between these two psychopathic senile geezers
"greenest president ever" gonna save the world by losing a trade war with china, and flooding the country with elon musk's exploding soup cans on wheels. oh wait it won't, and he doesn't give a **** because he'll be dead within ~5 years
nobody saw it coming
we're doing it for the jobs!!! (even though they're always firing thousands of ppl)
Yeah, no, this has very little to do with Tesla. Despite Musk's best efforts, Tesla still turns a profit. His job cuts are an effort to give some red meat to shareholders since the price is still ridiculously inflated and staving off a margin call is all he cars about.
This is about jobs for the Big 3, battery makers, and companies that make solar panels in the like. Tesla doesn't stand to benefit anywhere near as much as guys like Chevy and Ford do from this.
Mollusk.
https://theintercept.com/2024/05/18/isra...
Along with the scores of attacks, basic aid facilitation itself has been substandard. Touma noted that before October 7, Gaza was reliant on 500 aid trucks per day due to Israel’s 16-year blockade. For the first two weeks after the assault, she added, Gaza was under a “hermetic siege,” with days’ worth of aid never coming in. Even when aid deliveries resumed, the pace has substantially slowed. Based on data from Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories, a branch of the IDF, only 127 trucks have entered Gaza per day as of May 15.
gjge genocide joe
I like that American and Western doctors are no serving as real life human shields in the vain hope that the their hospital wont get Shifaed or Nasred. lets be real, they are going to murder those doctors just like all the others.
Eat my chaim, Vic
You guys could not have been happy with the revised numbers from the UN.
Yeah we are getting in a bunch for less than reported women and children deaths.
We need to tone it down to under 20k levels.
Hasan is a pretender.
What revised numbers?
Do you mean when the UN published a number of identified dead bodies, and the pro-Israel media falsely tried to claim the UN had lowered its death toll?
And then UN had to issue a follow up statement saying they had indeed not lowered the death toll, because Israel supporters continued to lie about it.
While in reality there are over 10,000 unidentified dead bodies because Israel are blowing children into so many pieces that even their own parents cant recognise them.
