The costs of trans visibility
Yesterday, Dylan Mulvaney broke her silence: https://www.tiktok.com/@dylanmulvaney/vi....
For context, this is a trans influencer who built a 10 million strong following on TikTok. She took a brand deal with budweiser to post an ad on an instagram, and the anti-trans right went absolutely ballistic, calling for a boycott, condemning the company, and to some perhaps unknowable degree it influenced that Budweiser sales dropped by a 1/4 and
. Dylan speaks more personally about the effect of the hatred on her.
What strikes me about this story is that it is just about visibility. This isn't inclusion in sports or gender-affirming care for minors, it was just that a trans person was visible. This wasn't even visibility in a TV commerical that a poor right-winger is forced to see, it was an ad on her own instagram page. We're all in our own social media algorithm influenced bubbles, but from my vantage point it really has seemed that in the last year or so things have just gotten worse for trans people and the backlash to even minor visibility is growing.
We need to do better.
You write this as if you know that these individuals are identifying as trans more now than they did before (including those who were kids in the past but have now come out as trans as adults). I get that you believe this to be true, but I'm wondering if you have some specific reason or data for this belief? I haven't personally seen data either way to influence my beliefs.
https://www.newsweek.com/people-who-iden...
The number of Gen Zers identifying as transgender is almost double the number of millennials who identify as trans, according to a survey by Gallup.
At 1.9 percent, Generation Z-those who were born between 1997 and 2004-has the highest percentage of people who say they identify as trans among all previous three generations.
Among millennials, 1.0 percent identify as trans, while among Generation X-those born between 1965 and 1980-and baby boomers-born between 1946 and 1964-this number plunges to 0.3 and 0.2, respectively. Among the Silent Generation
-born between 1928 and 1945-those identifying as trans are less than 0.05
percent.
Where are all the trans adults who are now free to come out? Why such discrepancy among Generation Z?
It’s self evident that the groups getting caught up the most in trans are the tomboys and the effeminate boys.
Not only is the non-sequitur to my post, you seem to be implying that teachers are grooming kids to be trans. Can you provide any other evidence (because the association you are claiming could easily be explained by the variable of degree of acceptance of trans people in each region) or a single story of this actually occurring? I hear the fear of this frequently but never with any support that it's happening.
Teachers lobbied to have laws passed about NOT having to tell parents if the minor self identifies as trans, and managed to do so (to get the laws passed) in California and elsewhere.
That is more than enough proof they do intend to push kids on the edge.
I am not sure which definition of grooming you want to use, the claim here is that minors with problems (severe lack of self esteem and others), and not-fully-hetero sexual preferences and/or with gender non-stereotypical behavior ("tomboys" and others), can be persuaded to be "actually trans", without changing absolutely anything (at least to begin with) in their life; it's not about someone otherwise absolutely normal and well-perfoming in society being "groomed". It's about people with significant personal problems + uncommon sexual preferences / behavioural attitudes ("misfits" in many cases) being given an alternative path to try to feel better about themselves.
We have hundreds of such stories by the minors themselves after they realize it later on, those stories are everywhere in non-leftist social media- Then we have things like 50%+ of tavistock minor patiens being autistic and so on.
Btw the fact that girls do self identify as trans much more often than boys it's clear proof that it's about social contagion, as girls are definitely far more susceptible to social contagion than boys , literature is uncontroversial about this.
It's not even particularly important to identify the causes of that social contagion (i happen to believe teachers play a significant role, but it could be minor, doesn't matter much, i am not asking to arrest those teachers so i don't have to prove anything), because we can protect the not-actually-trans kid from most actual damage , no matter what the source is , by banning puberty blockers, hormones and surgery.
They can keep self-identify the way they want , whatever the reason(s), but as long as they can't vote they can't harm themselves with the help of the medical establishment if sensible laws are passed, so that's enough for me (for now)
When the topic is that you can be punished by law by using the wrong pronouns because it's insulting/disrespectful, and the reason it's disrespectful is that "science" claims that gender identity exists, and it's entirely and uniquely subjective, yes they are.
Teachers lobbied to have laws passed about NOT having to tell parents if the minor self identifies as trans, and managed to do so (to get the laws passed) in California and elsewhere.
That is more than enough proof they do intend to push kids on the edge.
This is not proof at all. You are making up people's motivations based on your own thoughts instead of their stated reasons.
Ok, not just those groups. How about the socially marginalized in general? That would include not just those alienated by gender norms but also those who may be autistic.
How does the trans identity serve them in the future? They should be considered as much as the current trans community.
Good faith means not disguising intentions. If I am not censored why would I disguise my intentions? I would be crystal clear as I am in all topics where I am not censored
yeah the only people here not engaging in good faith are those stating they won't discuss anything because "you're not here in good faith"
I brought up the suicide example previously and I’ve been bringing up religion for a reason. It’s related to why trans identification is increasing. Again, it is not the same as sexual orientation.
As I stated before with suicide, we are not in the evolutionary story anymore. We are in the religious story. Trans identification emerges from a (mostly) subconscious level. It’s a counterfeit alternative to the individuation / hero’s journey process.
The force offering it up as a solution is the same force which voices suicidal ideation. I know this because I’ve dedicated my life to the internal hero’s journey. When you get to the end, the unknown of the mind is revealed. This is the only way to truly understand the mind.
yeah the only people here not engaging in good faith are those stating they won't discuss anything because "you're not here in good faith"
Nobody has said they won’t discuss anything
I’ve been begging for people to post actual content that backs their opinions and claims.
I think it’s likely this content just doesn’t exist.
So we ride the merry go round where I supply studies and statistics, you guys reject studies and statistics, then spew a bunch of opinions and jerk each other off for those opinions giving a nice confirmation bias dopamine hit and that’s all that gets internalized.
That’s pretty much the definition of bad faith arguments
Nobody has said they won’t discuss anything
I’ve been begging for people to post actual content that backs their opinions and claims.
I think it’s likely this content just doesn’t exist.
So we ride the merry go round where I supply studies and statistics, you guys reject studies and statistics, then spew a bunch of opinions and jerk each other off for those opinions giving a nice confirmation bias dopamine hit and that’s all that gets intern
This is why I quoted those two posts
Just ****ing repeating ones self ad nauseum despite having been answered 100 times
It's not like this is the very beginning of this discussion in this forum, let alone this thread. We've already had plenty of discussion on this and trials of having less strict rules. Even now, there's lots of anti-trans talk in this thread (though I haven't banned nor infracted anyone for this in the current discussion). You're in here pretending that I am strictly banning anyone who even accidentally crosses a line, when in reality you a
Gansta understand the merry go round
I had to google desistor and it seems anti-trans agenda made up a word to push their propaganda, just like social contagion.
Unsurprisingly, all the google hits for the word lack any sort of statistics and just push that it is a thing.
this is your answer when we try to counter with actual published science absurd claims like "only 1% detransition"
coordi i hope you can understand where we sit: "gender studies" are utter crap participated almost exclusively by rabid Marxists.
The entire field is a shame, a joke, completely devoid of any actual science.
you would like people to rebut the claim but it's like you going on with astrological claims linking what grifters tell people about Scorpio and Uranus.
what am I supposed to counter to that? it's incredible a rational person can even believe that field of "study" is anything but a joke.
we can link actually science from actual fields that is either tangential to topics discussed, or tries to enter the "gender studies" claims in full, but you go with "debunked" or "doesn't count this is right-wing". you already did that.
you say detransitioning is 1%. I tried to tell you, man actual real scientists in normal fields tells you that's false, completely made up, only rabid activists posing as researxher and getting financed to publish pro trans activism stuff claim that.
Nobody has said they won’t discuss anything
I’ve been begging for people to post actual content that backs their opinions and claims.
I think it’s likely this content just doesn’t exist.
So we ride the merry go round where I supply studies and statistics, you guys reject studies and statistics, then spew a bunch of opinions and jerk each other off for those opinions giving a nice confirmation bias dopamine hit and that’s all that gets intern
Where you supply a paper written by a nobody providing statistics that are meaningless. But by all means, keep linking your ''gender studies'' papers and keep pretending that basic biology is not a thing.
spew a bunch of opinions and jerk each other off for those opinions giving a nice confirmation bias dopamine hit and that’s all that gets internalized
Perfect description for you, the 2 mods and that teacher.
They don't have to guess, trans people tell them!
Less than 1% of transitioned individuals express "regret" with their transition.
Can less than 1% of people claim they don't regret their taco bell from last night?
I wont prescribe to the conspiracy theory that a subsection of medicine is broadly corrupt and acting against the interest of the individual to make money. Thats loony and awful and probably more a reflection of something within yo
What study are you using as your source for that less than 1%?
Nobody has said they won’t discuss anything
I’ve been begging for people to post actual content that backs their opinions and claims.
I think it’s likely this content just doesn’t exist.
So we ride the merry go round where I supply studies and statistics, you guys reject studies and statistics, then spew a bunch of opinions and jerk each other off for those opinions giving a nice confirmation bias dopamine hit and tha
i posted a bunch of thoughts that you ignored, meanwhile you've made many posts since then and only to insult other posters
but yeah, you're the one posting in good faith here... right...
Its probably more exhausting being a trans person
because people like you apparently ahve to be told
Let me explain the situation to the clowns coming into an 8000 post thread demanding answers
You aren't unique or special
We are all exhausted from running around trying to appease people who ignore, deflect, and insult
Studies get posted, studies get ignored. Opinions get posted, opinions get internalized
Its just this repeated cycle where nothing gets accomplished
Maybe do some of your own work? Present something with substance and data back
I dunno you could post something peer reviewed or even remotely scientific to support your view. That would definitely give you some wiggle room to be a hateful bigot.
Sounds like you should be having circle jerk discussions on twitter where you can feel safe saying that 99% with zero pushback or challenge
Do you think that maybe this is because its more acceptable to be gay or is your hypothesis that sucking dick is just that freakin cool?
This isn't a new conversation. There is no reason to believe any of you are capable of proceeding with good faith.
weird
lmao @ the mods removing my post and giving me an infraction because 2+2 is captured by the gender cult. What an absolute joke. There literally is no evidence whatsoever for trans-identity. It is an unfalsifiable state of mind and I can't believe a poker forum has fallen victim to such horseshit. I didn't say there aren't people that identify themselves as "trans." I said there is no such thing as trans BECAUSE THERE ISN'T. Pathetic. Ganstaman is a garbage mod and should absolutely withdraw from this discussion.
How many pages do I have to read to catch the other invented rules by this ideologue so I don't get my account nuked? Do I have to pretend that men are women or that someone's perceptive issues from DSM-listed mental disorders are reality? Again, absolutely pathetic.
You write this as if you know that these individuals are identifying as trans more now than they did before (including those who were kids in the past but have now come out as trans as adults). I get that you believe this to be true, but I'm wondering if you have some specific reason or data for this belief? I haven't personally seen data either way to influence my beliefs.
Holy ****, you have no clue wtf you're talking about. This is like day one level **** that you could Google in two seconds to find out, yet you're here, expressing doubt to defend your religion. Why are you modding this discussion? Why is there even a thread to discuss this cult if you have already solely decided that the discussion is over and the very thing we're discussing is settled?
This is not how to respond to a small infraction and deleted post. Phresh is on a one-day ban to cool off. I'll leave these posts up to explain to others.
I didn't say there aren't people that identify themselves as "trans."
There literally is no evidence whatsoever for trans-identity.
I said there is no such thing as trans BECAUSE THERE ISN'T.
people identifying as trans is evidence of trans-identity, and proof that it exists. lol
