Politics and Society Moderation Discussion Only Fans Thread

I would like to be a rainbow of colours as performative LGBT defender in chief.

What about Michael Hutchence?

Mod stuff -

Keep Rococo green.

Good work on the Crime and Punishment thread Browser.

Not sure what orange is - but green has always been just moderator (you could also be made moderator of multiple forums), blue has been global moderator which means you could be moderator of any forum (you don't have to be necessarily assigned to that forum) and orange I think is the same but you need to be assigned to a forum but I think then blue means that you then moderate orange while red moderates everything and can see back-end site functions and controls.

Well, that's cleared that up then.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/faq.p...

Administrators are all red or blue; blue admins have less administrator permissions. There are a small handful of red and blue posters that aren't admins at all, and some aren't even mods. I think the only non-admin reds or blues that have been active in the last year are R*R and Ray Zee. Orange are "super moderators" that can moderate in any forum (as can admins, of course) - I believe Mike Haven is the only active one, and the others are killa and citanul.

OK. I have incorporated the new guidelines for posting on transgender topics into the stickied thread about forum guidelines. I am posting them below as well. I gave serious and careful consideration to all sides of this issue. Some will be very unhappy with the policy and choose to leave the forum rather than have to adhere to the guidelines. That's fine. No one here is going to try and change someones beliefs, and there are numerous places on the internet for those who want to express their beliefs that are in conflict with these guidelines.

The rationale for this decision is laid out in the guidelines. They are effective now. Please take the time to read them and adhere to them. Again, if your personal beliefs prevent you from following the guidelines, that's fine. But please don't continue to make posts here that violate the guidelines. Just simply stop posting of those topics here.

Politics and Society Posting Guidelines for Transgender Topics.

The following guidelines will be enforced on all threads and posts related to transgender topics. It is recognized that some people may have very strong beliefs concerning transgender persons that are diametrically opposed to these guidelines. Nonetheless, the following guidelines are in effect and posters who violate these guidelines will be subject to the same disciplinary procedures as other violators of forum rules and guidelines.

It is the policy of this forum that we support the major Medical Organizations positions that unequivocally state that transgender people are NOT mentally ill, and do not suffer from a mental disorder. The leading reference works for mental disorders, the DSM-5 of the American Psychiatric Association made that clear over 10 years ago, and maintained that position in the recent DSM-5-TR revision. The World Health Organization also moved gender incongruence out of the mental illness category in ICD-11. As more and more research is done, the idea that transgender persons have a mental disorder fades more and more into the past. Therefore, that is not a matter that will be put up for debate in the forum. It will be treated as a given that transgender people do not have any form of mental health disorder or illness.

It is our desire in this forum to provide a welcoming environment for all people to discuss various topics free from personal attacks. There are few attacks more personal and harmful and disrespectful than to state that a person has a mental illness when they do not. Therefore any posts or discussions stating such will be deleted, and appropriate action, including banning from the site, will be taken against posters who fail to adhere to these guidelines.

Other prohibited posts include the use of slur terms such as tranny or transformers, among others to refer to either individual posters or transgender persons as a group. Deliberately misgendering transgender people who publicly present themselves as one gender in order to make the indirect point that you do not acknowledge the existence of transgender people is also prohibited.

The overriding principle in play here is that transgender people exist, are not mentally ill, and have the right to present themselves publicly as they see fit. And as a matter of simple respect that we accord to anyone, there is no place for the deliberate use of other terms to disrespect their gender identity.

There will be some to whom these guidelines will be unacceptable and in conflict with their personal beliefs. And that's fine. There are many other places on the internet where like-minded people gather to share those beliefs with one another. If you can't post on transgender topics without including those beliefs, by all means leave here and go there.

There will be no transgender catch all thread to discuss transgender issues just as we have no catch all threads to discuss other LGBTQ groups. There will be no threads or posts about whether transgender people exist, have mental illness, or deserve to be treated with the same respect as others. Rather, if there are specific issues that affect politics or society, such as participation of transgender people in sports, or issues concerning proposed laws about bathroom use or education curriculum, those are appropriate. But only as the discussion pertains to the thread topic and doesn't devolve back into direct and indirect references to mental illness or if transgenderism is real, or gets filled with anti-transgender slurs.

Though these guidelines are straightforward, if you have any questions about whether a post of yours is within the guidelines I encourage you to check with a mod before posting it.

I am curious whether this new policy is borne out of discussion with other mods and the owners of this site, or whether it is a policy you have created yourself.

I posted in the mod thread to seek other mod input. No one supported allowing the position that transgender people have a mental illness to be debated.

It's good to hear that it isn't just you then, but the entirety of the mod forum that supports the demonization of people with mental illness. Nice job.

I personally don't regularly read or post in the trans threads that pop up on these forums. I do care that on this politics forum, a politics forum that has been around for around twenty years and has been unique in that it has traditionally had well thought out intelligent discussion, now has mod-imposed right-think and wrong-think about a hot-button political issue. We are about two weeks away from this turning into the equivalent of r/politics on Reddit.

does this mean that people will still be able to freely call anyone they disagree with a bigot or transphobe?

Gender Dysphoria is in the DSM-5 as something some transgender people experience. Is that still allowed to be discussed?

https://www.psychiatry.org/psychiatrists...)

That's a mental disorder that some transgender people experience. The dsm-5 also states that not all transgender people experience gender dysphoria. So as long as someone doesnt try and say that all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and therefore all have mental illness, I could see how it could be discussed in the proper context.

browser can you please answer my question above, i find it inconsistent to have such a thorough policy that does not address the constant and false accusations of transphobia and bigotry as a boiler plate response that we find in these threads

Sure. Context will matter. If someone says, (for an extreme example to make a point) that "I dont think transgender people should be allowed to be teachers because they can't be trusted around kids" one shouldnt be surprised if someone accuses you of transphobia. If, otoh, someone says "I dont think transgender women who went through puberty prior to their transition should compete in womens sports because of their physical advantages" then an accusation of bigotry or transphobia is not appropriate. That expresses a legitimate concern that can be debated back and forth.

I have noticed that usually the name calling starts around the time that a person has run out of actual points to make and so abandons the use of facts or logic and resorts to name calling in order to keep the discussion going without actually advancing the argument. This is coupled with the desire of most posters to "win" the day so if the other side fails to acknowledge that the brilliant and irrefutable points made by the other poster have changed their mind, frustration sets in. The truth is almost no one changes their position on controversial topics as a result of an internet debate. It happens sometimes, but if it doesnt people need to resist the urge to throw up their hands and start the name calling. Hopefully people will refrain from using such terms as an autoresponse to an opposite opinion going forward. If not, we'll take a look on a case by case basis.

ty

I read the guidelines. I have the same baseline of respect for a transgender person that I have for anyone else.

I just have very little tolerance for moral trespassers and people trying to hold a position they haven’t earned. I’ll go ahead and expose the entire situation in that case, especially if it’s harming young people.

Sorry I'm afraid I don't actually follow your references so I don't know how to reply.

I assume clowning on posters for writing incomprehensible gibberish in an attempt to sound enlightened is now against the rules? We have a handful of serial infractors around here.

Imoved the posts about social constructs to the general discussion thread. I would like to continue that discussion but since the number of posts was growing I thought it best to move it from the mod thread.

Are we allowed to disagree with the DSM-V in other contexts that don't involve trans people?

Could we say (to bring back the nationalism point again), that extreme nationalism* is a form of mental illness even though that is no where in the manual?

*Or any kind of nationalism even. Could we argue that the Japanese Kamikaze pilots of WWII were mentally ill?

Maybe we could start a 7th thread on the trans issue " similarities between the trans community and Kamikaze pilots

My issue is with using the DSM to justify what we are and not allowed to say here.

I've never once called trans people mentally ill. Mental illness is a complex and relative term and it would be easy to argue that everyone suffers from some form of mental illness in one way or another.

If you asked people from 100 years ago what they thought of people who spent half the day staring at a piece of glass, i'm sure a lot of them would say that it's a form of mental illness.

I think you should be allowed to discuss if it is a mental illness in some. If the suicide rates are high it is a mental illness . I am not saying your saying this but we need to get past the sigma of Mental Illness

My remark is more to how many trans threads do we need ?

Lets not forget that we have WPATH saying that 'eunuch' is a gender.

Are we allowed to disagree with WPATH? They are after the so-called authority on transgender health.

It wasnt just the dsm-5 that was considered, even though it is often used as the standard for mental health disorders. And interestingly posters in the past have cited earlier versions of the dsm when making their case that transgender people do have a mental illness.

People should not look for ways around this policy. And your hypotheticals about extreme nationalists or kamikazi pilots are not useful in determining future decisions about making the claim that a group of people suffer from a mental illness and Im not going to answer questions on whatever group someone thinks up.